Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Sarah: Hello, and welcome back to Fiber in Between. Today's topic is all about the angora goat. So we're going to be talking about what they are, where they come from, what they do, what we're doing with them, and everything in between.
So here we go with the angora goats at Red Falcon Ranch.
[00:00:25] Rachel: So, hi, I'm Rachel. I'm the face you see at Red Falcon Ranch. And Sarah is my sister, the host. Hello. And I'm also here with mom, who runs everything as well. And so what makes red. One of the things that makes Red Falcon Ranch very special is we have the largest colored angora goat herd in the world that has been uncontested. So I'm just going to keep saying it. And they're all named. We have 80 of them. Each one is named. Yes, we can tell them all apart. Yes, we know their names. Yes. I have all their pedigrees memorized. I have a photographic memory.
And the Angor Oracle is a very underrated goat. And it should be up where the Valet black nose and the Highland coup are. But that I'm. I'm getting it there. So it's slow but steady.
And they are not a sheep as commonly mistaken. They are indeed goats. And they're not, you know, this new designer breed or anything like that. They're actually a very ancient breed of goat, and they hail from the high mountain plains of Turkey, actually.
And historically, they have always been bred to be white.
And so coloreds didn't come in until literally the last half of this decade.
[00:01:38] Sarah: Bless you.
[00:01:39] Rachel: Sorry, Olaf. Ew. Olaf. They got all over my hand. Olaf's right here. We're in the dip of the pasture right now, and all three guard dogs are with us. And Olaf is right here chewing on a stick that apparently went up his nose. Anyway, back to the goats that these guys protect. So. So Angora goats are very old. They're actually mentioned in the Bible. They're thousands of years old. And again, historically, they have always been bred to be white for a couple purposes. Number one, for religious purposes, because it's a. It's a pure color. White is. And number two, that way, when you dye it, it remains a consistent color. Because when you add. When you dye colored mohair, then it becomes very inconsistent.
[00:02:22] Sarah: There's variants.
[00:02:23] Rachel: Yes. Varying shades and whatnot. So white has always been the major color. And mohair itself is a luxurious fiber. It's very strong. It's very silky. It's known as the diamond fiber for those qualities.
A single strand of mohair is stronger than a similarly sized strand of steel. So you have the strength. You also have the softness. You have the luster. It grows in these beautiful ringlet curls, these locks.
So it's. It's very, very beautiful. Yeah. And it's very, very popular in the high fashion world.
So, like, James Bond's suits are mohair suits, because mohair is very popular in Hollywood because it looked really good on camera. It's got that sheen, it's got that sparkle. And because mohair is a natural fiber, it's sweat wicking, odor control, temperature regulating. So it works really great in action scenes because, you know, suits are great for doing action scenes in.
So that's. If you've never heard of mohair, I guarantee you actually have.
[00:03:32] Sarah: You got electric boots, a mohair suit. You know, you read it in a magazine.
[00:03:38] Rachel: So we have Elton John here with that little ditty, you know, electric boots and mohair suit. And mohair is a very versatile fiber. So because of all those qualities way, way back when, angora goats were only in Turkey, and Turkey had a monopoly on mohair, because mohair is so amazing, to put it in simple terms. And so there was no exporting of angora goats. It was actually on pain of death if there was, if angora goats were illegally exported. And so it wasn't until literally a couple hundred years ago, in the 1830s, that the ruler of Turkey gave a gift to the ruler of France of two wethers and a doe. Now, wethers are neutered males. The doe happened to be pregnant, and that is how angora goats began to spread to other parts of the world. And then England developed a technique to use mohair in their mills, and that skyrocketed mohair trade. So mohair just blew through the roof with that of England being able to process mohair. And then once, with America doing during the cotton stuff, we had this guy, I think it was in Pennsylvania or South Carolina, he helped Turkey figure out better ways to cultivate cotton. And in return, they gave him seven angora goats that somehow managed to travel all the way from Turkey to the states. So that is how they arrived in the States. Now, again, these were all white. Everything. All of these angorgos that I'm talking about were white. If there was any recessive color that showed up, such as brown or red, they were immediately culled, which means they were killed due to being impure, and they didn't want to deal with any colored hair.
And so you have now today in South Africa, you have these huge ranches with thousands of White angora goats. Same in Texas, same in Oklahoma. And so you have all of these whites. And it wasn't until the last half of this century that people really started wanting to get into the natural colors of natural fibers. And so what some people did is, is they went to these big ranches here in the states and they said, hey, if you have any recessive colors that show up, let me know. I want them. So that is how some people started getting into the colored angora goats, while other people started breeding in other breeds of goats. Yeah, so when people think of a goat, they usually fiber is not the first thing that comes to mind. It's usually meat or milk.
So people started breeding in meat goats and dairy goats to get the colors and patterns in. And while that did bring in lots of colors and patterns, it also severely degraded the quality of the mohair, which is still a problem today, generations later.
So. Because if you look at a meat goat or a dairy goat, they have a very thick, coarse coat, and that is made up of guard hairs that protect them from the elements. Okay. So when you start crossbreeding, especially with angora goats, and you get these pygors or these nigors or what have you, you don't get mohair. You get almost a cashmere fiber, because now the mohair is filled with all of these coarse fibers. So now you're dealing with a bunch of different coats. You're dealing with an outer coat and undercoat, a downy coat.
So a lot of people that crossbreed, then any fiber that their goat produces actually has to be sent off to be dehaired. Because now you have all these. These guard hairs in there, these. This kemp, these medullated fibers that are not comfortable when you make it for garments that are next to skin, such as socks or throws.
So now to where we are today.
So we started raising goats about 20 years ago, and we had not a clue about really any of that regarding in the fiber. And, you know, people really wanted darker colors. And even today and what we are still, we're breeding for darker colors. Darker colors? Yeah, especially dark brown, like Guinness.
So it wasn't until when did we start micron testing or becoming aware of that?
[00:08:24] Angela: Probably 2019.
[00:08:26] Rachel: Okay.
[00:08:27] Angela: And in 2019, I was pursuing, starting up making socks. This was before Caprine and I actually started a little business called Goat and Shepherd, which was supposed to be like yarn and socks.
I had no startup funding, so it was just a pretty small little venture and started doing the socks. And then when I wanted to move into larger volumes and start caprine. When I talked to the mills, they were saying, well, what is your micron count? Well, I don't know, but it's really soft and silky. It's got
[00:09:04] Rachel: a soft handle. It
[00:09:05] Angela: has a soft handle, whatever the heck
[00:09:07] Rachel: that means.
[00:09:08] Angela: And, well, we can't help you. We need to know your micron.
So it's like, okay, I need to know my micron. So I went back to the drawing board. How do I find out micron and. And Texas A and M actually has a lab that tests micron counts on fibers.
So it was through there that we started sending in a sample from every goat's fleece, every shearing, and started tracking our micron counts. And instead of just breeding, oh, I've got this dark brown, and I've got that dark brown. Let's make another dark brown. And we don't know the quality. Now we can make better breeding decisions because we know the actual quality scientifically of that mohair
[00:09:48] Rachel: On a microscopic level, that gives us. So when we get the results back on each goat's mohair, it's columns of data that tells you every little bit about that. That mohair. Because when we first started, we had not a clue, you know, as most people do when they start things. And, you know, we just thought, you know, we didn't even know anything about color genetics. We were like, oh, here's a black goat. Here's a black goat. Let's breed them together. You know, Brilliant. Actually, that was brillian. We were doing really good.
We
[00:10:20] Angela: did pretty good not knowing anything.
[00:10:22] Rachel: Yeah. So, but we. We didn't know anything about the mohair. You know, we really didn't know much about kemp.
And often, even now, when you see colored angora goats, often all the color you're seeing actually isn't the mohair. It's the kemp in the mohair, which isn't good.
That's unusual.
[00:10:43] Angela: Those are those pokey fibers that you don't want that. You don't want that. In the olden days, if somebody said, oh, that mohair, that mohair sweater was so itchy. Well, it was probably made with really coarse mohair.
[00:10:55] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:10:56] Angela: It wasn't made with the nice, soft, low micron mohair.
[00:10:59] Rachel: And you get older breeders now. And there were breeders that were telling us, you know, the old timers that we think, you know, they know a lot and they really don't, but because they have experience, quote unquote, that automatically gains them respect. And they were telling us, oh, you gotta feel the handle you ought to feel that. What is this? A door, you know, like what even is a handle. And
[00:11:22] Angela: you need to grow it as long as possible for hand spinning. Well, that's not necessarily true because a mill cannot process it if it's over 6 inches. If it's more than 6 inches, when they're trying to cart it out so that all the fibers are lined up, it starts to wrap around the rollers.
So actually, four to six inches is ideal.
But we would hear breeders say, oh, you need to get it six, seven, eight inches long. Well, then you're not shearing twice a year. Then you're shearing once a year with this extremely long mohair that you can't do anything with. I'm not quite sure why people show ring. Oh, show ring. Show ring. That's right. I forgot about that. You want it long for the show ring.
[00:12:04] Sarah: I will pop in here too. The different uses that people use mohair for. So when you talk to different people, talk to us like we're talking about micron count and softness and all those different things.
That's for what we're using our mohair for. Depending on what you want your mohair for, if anything will determine what you're breeding for, the different things you want.
[00:12:27] Rachel: You need a micron test to know what you should use the mohair for.
[00:12:32] Sarah: Well,
[00:12:32] Angela: depending
[00:12:32] Sarah: on what you want to
[00:12:33] Angela: make, as long as you want it to be.
[00:12:35] Rachel: Because if you think your mohair is soft, it actually might not be that soft.
Because like chronicle. Because people feel Chronicles mohair and they're like, wow, this is so soft. And it's like, no, it's not. It has a micron of 40 that is coarse mohair. The best thing for Chronicles mohair is a rug or a horse cinch.
And so micron testing allows you to be able to know exactly what you should be using that mohair for and for future breeding purposes. Because we purposefully breed for low micron, because we are using our mohair for next to skin. However, most of our dark colored goats have higher micron because of the kemp and the coarser hair.
And that makes perfect mohair for rugs.
[00:13:27] Angela: Yep, for rugs.
[00:13:28] Rachel: So there's combie items. So there's no bad micron. There's a purpose for all mohair.
[00:13:35] Angela: Right.
[00:13:35] Rachel: It's just. It's good to be aware what it is so that you can make educated breeding decisions, if you're breeding or educated decisions on what to use that mohair for
[00:13:48] Angela: or what to sell it. So if I'm selling Mohair to a hand spinner that wants to spin yarn to knit her sweater.
I want to sell her low micron. If I'm selling mohair to someone who's going to weave rugs, they're going to want the higher micron.
So not only from a breeding perspective, but from a selling perspective, what does the end user want for us? We are our end user because we make socks and throws
[00:14:15] Rachel: and rugs,
[00:14:16] Angela: but now we're also making rugs. So every goat has a purpose? Yes. Whether it's a young goat or an old goat, they all make mohair.
[00:14:23] Sarah: And they never stop growing mohair
[00:14:26] Angela: their whole life. They're making mohair. So a wether, which is a neutered male angora goat, is ideal. If you want just a couple of goats and you want to have your own mohair source, you will get your own wonderful supply. If you're doing it on a larger scale, like us, you definitely need to know what you're breeding for. You want to understand your color genetics, and you want to understand your micron so you can make educated breeding decision based on the type of mohair you want to breed. Because
[00:14:57] Rachel: if you want to be sending your mohair off to mills, you gotta be able to speak their language.
[00:15:02] Angela: You do. You can't just say, well, it's soft and silky and has a great handle.
[00:15:07] Rachel: They're gonna be like, okay, bite.
[00:15:09] Angela: Yeah, don't waste my time.
[00:15:10] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:15:11] Sarah: And as we grow and look to acquire more mohair for our goods from other ethical ranchers, they need to know what their micron is so that
[00:15:21] Rachel: we know.
[00:15:22] Sarah: So that we know.
[00:15:22] Angela: Right.
So we do encourage everyone, Everyone should be micron testing. And it's not expensive. It's $5 a sample. So how do
[00:15:30] Sarah: you
[00:15:30] Angela: micron test a goat?
So you, you go out to the Texas A and M website, to the Bill Sims wool and Mohair lab, and they'll have a form there.
And on the form, it shows you where to cut a sample off of the goats. So basically, it's behind the shoulder blade and down from the top line. Cut a couple of locks off, put it into a baggie with the goat's name, and send it off for $5. You will get a huge spreadsheet, a
[00:15:58] Rachel: wealth of information,
[00:15:59] Angela: of information. And the factors that are most important to us are the accumulative micron, which doesn't measure just a single hair, but it measures multiple hairs and then also comfort factor. So you want a low micron. The lower the micron, the softer it is next to Your skin.
And the higher the comfort factor, which is a percentage. It's a calculation based off several other numbers from the report.
You want the comfort factor over 80%. So, like Merino, fine merino, that's used for sweaters next to skin. We use it in our throws and our socks. That has a comfort factor of 99%, which is phenomenal.
So even though we're happy with 80% comfort factor, because mohair does not have the little tiny barbs like wool, even at 80%, our mohair is still softer than wool just because of the nature of it.
[00:17:02] Rachel: So kind of getting into that. So what have we done to improve the micron in our herd is using white angoras. Because white angoras consists are. They are the epitome of consistency, you know, that's why people didn't want to get. Get colors, because then you have all this inconsistency, you know, so white angoras have consistently low micron and high comfort factor. And so that is the best way to improve your micron is by breeding in white angoras. To improve the overall mohair quality is to breed in white angoras, which is what we have done.
And last fall, mom and dad made a trip down to Oklahoma to get one of those rare recessive coloreds that had been born into a white herd. Her name is Coco. She had bunny. This is a story on its own, but so now we have one of those rare recessive colors who. Who has incredibly low micron and not a single thing of kemp on her.
[00:18:07] Angela: Yeah, it's
[00:18:08] Rachel: all true colored mohair. It's amazing.
But, you know, then we have Godiva, who's this stunningly gorgeous brown goat who has a high micron. Okay, there's a bit of. There's kemp in there. That's how we have that super dark color. But her mohair is fantastic for rugs,
[00:18:25] Angela: and we breed her back to those fine whites.
[00:18:27] Rachel: Yep.
And she had brown. She
[00:18:29] Angela: had
[00:18:30] Rachel: brown babies. Yen and Beorn that are going to continue because we want. We want each generation to be an enhancement on the last.
[00:18:39] Angela: Always be improving. We should always be improving.
[00:18:42] Rachel: You know, we're not. Just because we have bucks and does doesn't mean we're breeding them together just to have babies, which is a very common mindset. Oh, you have a boy and a girl. Put them together, have babies. Why?
Why?
Do you have a reason why? Because we have breeding goals. We have standards. We have reasons why. And you should, because that is life you are bringing into the world.
And so highly Highly recommend establishing breeding goals.
[00:19:13] Angela: Yeah.
And micron testing.
[00:19:15] Rachel: And micron testing. And what are you doing? Are you just breeding for fun? Are you breeding for a purpose?
Like,
[00:19:24] Sarah: if you just want mohair. My recommendation is a small herd of wethers.
They're so great. They don't have any of the hormones and they grow excellent mohair. And they're just so chill.
[00:19:35] Angela: They're such good goat citizens.
[00:19:36] Rachel: So Angora goats are the best fiber producing animal in the world. And by best, I mean they produce. They are the quickest growing fiber animal. So they grow fiber quicker than any other fiber animal. I'm talking alpaca, I'm talking sheep, I'm talking yak, I'm talking bison. I'm talking anything. They grow fiber faster than any of them put together. And they also grow the most and the heaviest. So quantity wise,
[00:20:05] Sarah: throughout their lifetime.
[00:20:06] Rachel: So they produce mohair grows an inch per month. Yeah. And then we share them twice a year.
And at each shearing season, they produce between 8 to 10 pounds of mohair per year. That's at least 20 pounds of mohair per year that one goat is producing across their lifetime. Yeah. So, I mean, they are the. I don't know why they're not a bigger deal.
They're amazing, okay? Because most sheep, most sheep are sheared once a year and produce like what, four to five pounds? And don't get me even started on bison, okay? If you see anything bison, it's from a dead body. Buffalo, okay? It's from a dead buffalo that has already been slaughtered. And they comb and skinned and they comb the hide for the weird fluff on top. And guess what? You only get a few ounces. You get about 4 ounces. And after they go through all that, you get like 2 ounces of fluff. That
[00:21:04] Sarah: are usable.
[00:21:04] Rachel: That's usable.
I mean, come on. So that's because
[00:21:09] Angela: bison are meat animals. I
[00:21:11] Rachel: know they're a meat animal. But then you get these buffalo socks and it's like, I hope you know that that's coming from a dead buffal. And whether that influences your decision to wear that or not. Okay. Our stuff is coming from a live and loved animal that has a name.
[00:21:24] Sarah: And there's nothing crazy about harvesting it from an angora.
[00:21:29] Rachel: No, I do all the shearing myself. I do all the shearing myself. It is very low stress. I either shear them with a scissor or with a mechanical clippers. That's quieter than a vacuum.
It only takes me about 15 minutes. But per goat, they don't freak out. Some of them even chew their cud throughout the whole thing.
[00:21:50] Sarah: We put them. And we don't flip them on their back and hog tie them.
[00:21:53] Rachel: We do it on a. It's called a dairy stanchion. It's like a milking stand. So we walk them up a ramp. We put their head in a headstall that's very comfortable for them. So they are able to move their head. They're not really locked in any way. And it's very low stress.
[00:22:11] Angela: It's like your dog going to the groomer.
[00:22:13] Rachel: Exactly.
[00:22:13] Angela: It's probably less stressful dress. Because they already know you, Rachel.
[00:22:16] Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. We don't. So some myths around mohair. You don't give them baths that will only felt the mohair because wet mohair that gets agitated will felt
[00:22:29] Sarah: any natural fiber.
[00:22:31] Angela: And
[00:22:31] Rachel: so we. No baths. No baths. What we do to get the mohair cleaner before we shear it is we use a professional dog blower.
[00:22:39] Sarah: Well, and what they eat, we have hay that isn't full of little pieces or seed heads. Cause that'll get stuck in the mohair.
[00:22:48] Rachel: Yep.
[00:22:48] Sarah: So we feed a very high quality, high protein hay. Cause hair is protein. And they need all those nutrients to grow the most lustrous mohair they can. And keep good body condition because everything goes towards their mohair. And you don't brush an angora goat.
[00:23:03] Rachel: Nope.
[00:23:03] Sarah: You just let the mohair grow and do what you can. So that no junk or anything or vegetable matter.
[00:23:09] Rachel: Yeah. To reduce. Reduce hay bits and whatnot in it. And then we blow it them before we shear them. Because that gets all the dirt and stuff out as well.
[00:23:18] Angela: And that dulls your blades.
[00:23:19] Rachel: Because dirt and stuff can dull the blades. So we blow them and then we weigh them on a scale because we keep detailed health records of each goat. So we weigh them twice a year and minimum. Minimum twice a year we weigh them and they get very used to getting going on the stand because we do herd health maintenance every six to eight weeks. And so we take out the stand and load them up on there and trim their h.
Their eyes to see if they need to be dewormed via the famacha method. And do any, you know, trim their booties, trim their faces, you know, any other maintenance that they need.
[00:23:54] Sarah: And if you do have a male goat, you do need to trim the pizzle area.
[00:23:58] Rachel: Yeah. Where they pee. So with angora goats, because of all their hair often on the does and the bucks, you need to trim around where they pee more often than not. Otherwise that can get really gross.
So manscaping and Brazilians. Okay.
[00:24:14] Sarah: Stay up on it.
[00:24:15] Rachel: And deworming. So the famache method, like I just said, it's where you pull down their lower eyelid. And based on the color of their lower eyelid, you can tell how anemic they are and whether they need to be dewormed. So you
[00:24:29] Angela: can talk about that.
We deworm on an as needed basis. We don't just massive deworm, everybody. We use the famache method
[00:24:37] Rachel: because you don't want the worms to get.
[00:24:39] Angela: Yeah. You don't want those parasites to develop resistance.
[00:24:42] Rachel: Yeah, that's no good.
[00:24:44] Angela: Right.
And so we just deworm as needed based on the goat.
[00:24:49] Rachel: Yeah. So if the, if you pull the lower eyelid down and it's a pink to a really, like it's a bright pink to a bright red even. That's great. That is healthy. As soon as it starts getting quite pale and white,
[00:25:03] Angela: no
[00:25:03] Rachel: good.
[00:25:04] Angela: That means they have parasites in their stomach that's sucking their blood and that would be a heavy burden.
[00:25:10] Rachel: Yeah. And you can even tell if they're like losing weight and just looking kind of punk.
[00:25:16] Angela: Yeah. They just look a little scraggly.
[00:25:18] Rachel: Yeah. Just they've lost their sparkle kind of thing.
So just things like that to keep in mind. Otherwise, angora goats are pretty low maintenance animals.
[00:25:30] Angela: They are,
[00:25:30] Rachel: they're very.
They're not as stinky as other breeds. So like right now it's rut.
And any male goat right now, no matter the breed, is peeing on themselves because that is really. That gets the ladies going. Okay. And dairy goats and meat goats that can stink to high heavens. But we found with the angora goats, it really is not that bad unless you're like up close and personal with them. But it's not like they're. They're smoking out the whole ranch.
[00:26:02] Angela: Right. Like,
[00:26:03] Rachel: it's, it's really not bad. I
[00:26:04] Angela: think dairy bucks are the worst.
[00:26:06] Rachel: Yeah. So. And they're very easygoing. Angora goats are. They're very chill, they're very calm, they're very quiet.
[00:26:13] Sarah: I do think it's important to mention how they're raised.
[00:26:16] Rachel: That is true,
[00:26:17] Sarah: is a very big part. Our goats are very well known for being chill and kind, having fun personalities, being friendly and respectful.
[00:26:26] Rachel: I get messages all the time from people who have bought our goats asking, how did you get them this way?
And there's really no magic formula. We've.
As soon as they're born, they're hands on because you can't keep your hands off them. They're so cute. So tons of cuddling. Sarah's our chief baby snuggler,
[00:26:45] Angela: my favorite baby tamer.
[00:26:47] Rachel: And so she just loves sitting out there with the babies. And then when the baby boys get older and they start getting too interested in their moms and sisters, they get moved into a transition pen that we call the baby boy pen. And that is where we have a lot of our older wethers as well that need tlc. And I think it's really good to have the baby boys have a mentor and an elder of sorts because then they kind of lay down the law with them because the baby boys think they're all that. They think they're absolute hot shots. And then the weathers, they're like, no, you're not. And so it's a very humbling experience for them, a very good one. And then they stay with them all winter and then they move in with the big boys once they're out on pasture in the spring, Another humbling experience for them because they think they're hot shots all over again.
And then we, all of our boys, all of our bucks are leash trained, leash and collar trained, because that is the easiest way to move them around the property, whether it's for breeding dates or shearing or maintenance.
And instead of dragging them by their horns, which can be nigh on impossible when you're dealing with a 200 pound plus buck that doesn't want to go, it's much better to teach them how to walk nicely on a collar and leash.
And I don't know how ours always end up walking so well because we usually only end up doing it twice a year during shearing. But they do. We pop the collar on and they walk nicely on it. And it's so low, there's no stress.
So easy on us, so much easier on the goat. They're respectful, they're gentlemanly.
So. And I mean, we'll get baby boys that are rambunctious and disrespectful and you know, we'll take our knee and kind of knee them away or shove them away. We do not promote that behavior at all. We do not encourage that behavior at all.
And very rarely have we had to take a buck down. And then it's only usually bucks that are not our own. And by that I mean where we take their horn and a back leg and we put them on their side and kind of tip them up so legs are in the air. And then that's kind of a. That puts them in a very vulnerable position and
[00:29:09] Angela: puts them submissive
[00:29:10] Rachel: and it makes them submissive. Yeah. Rarely do we have to do that. And the only times we've had to do that is with bucks that have not been raised by us.
And they are very disrespectful and dangerous.
And if we have to do that more than a few times, then we weather them because we do not tolerate any aggressive behavior, especially towards us. If they start displaying aggressive behavior towards us, that is a no. No.
And so we get tons of messages all the time saying, our goats are so amazing and they're wonderful and they are.
Treat them with
[00:29:46] Sarah: love and respect and they'll grow big, strong and kind.
[00:29:49] Rachel: Yeah. Because all of our goats have known love.
And you know, we get goats from other people and they're absolute psychopaths. And it's like, what happened to you? What did you experience?
It's ridiculous.
[00:30:04] Angela: And there's no taming them once. There's
[00:30:06] Rachel: no taming them. It's crazy. Well,
[00:30:08] Sarah: especially in a herd size like ours, if you have a smaller herd and you're out there with biscuits every day, it's a different size story. But we also are not out with biscuits every day. Our goats are naturally friendly and if we were to give them treats every day, that would become dangerous
[00:30:22] Rachel: for us, that we would, we would be trampled by goats. It'd be craziness.
[00:30:27] Sarah: So they just come up for love. Cuz they love love, which is really
[00:30:31] Rachel: nice. There are some that, that are more aloof, like mini Robin with Sarah. Sarah tried so hard to tame Mini Robin as a baby and she was like, nope, I'm. I'm not a friendly one. And it's like, okay. And then she had baby Larkspur who's super friendly. So.
[00:30:45] Sarah: And even if they're not, it
[00:30:46] Rachel: does depend on the goat too.
[00:30:48] Sarah: Even if they're not friendly, coming up for attention, they're not crazy.
[00:30:51] Rachel: No,
[00:30:52] Sarah: we can still handle them all over.
[00:30:54] Rachel: Yeah. There's no fear. Fear of.
[00:30:55] Sarah: I'm just saying they're not coming up for cuddles and rubbing their head on me, saying, scratch right here.
[00:30:59] Rachel: Right. Exactly.
So. And we started raising angora goats back in early 2000s.
So we've been raising them now for almost, probably over 20 years now.
And we've learned a lot during that time.
Color genetics wise. Color genetics is a very, very fascinating topic that could probably be an episode on its own.
[00:31:26] Sarah: Definitely.
[00:31:28] Rachel: Because there is a lot involved with that, especially when you're getting into the patterns and whatnot. But what we purposefully breed for here is the deep dark colors. Because we love those colors being able to be represented in our throws and our rugs and whatever other creations that we're going to be making. We. We love those deep, natural colors. So we breed for the blacks and the browns and the reds. That's what we really, really strive for. But we also use the whites to improve the mohair. So we have a whole rainbow of colors and each one is beautiful and unique in its own way. So that's exciting.
[00:32:08] Sarah: Two other things that we commonly get asked are about their horns and about their age range.
[00:32:14] Rachel: So their horns are needed. Okay. They're required. They need. Not only because of it being a breed standard, but simply due to their survival. And so anything that grows horns, believe it or not, it's because they need them
[00:32:30] Sarah: and not you should
[00:32:31] Rachel: not remove them.
[00:32:32] Sarah: Not for fighting or aggression purposes.
[00:32:34] Rachel: No.
Yeah. It's simply for actually keeping them cool. It's for thermodynamics.
And so like take the Angora goat, for instance. During the summer, they have a good 3 inches of fleece on them.
And when you have the sun beating down on them, that can get quite warm, Even with mohair being temperature regulating. So, so what the horns do? Horns have an active blood supply that circulates through the horn. And with that, it then has a passive heat exchange with the air surrounding the horn, Thus acting like a built in AC unit and keeping the goats cool.
So horns are used for thermal regulation. In addition, they also make great handles for catching and holding. Except for babies. We don't do that with babies. Cause their horns are fragile.
Horns never stop growing. And that is very evident with the bucks where their horns spiral out. And they can get very impressive, very beautiful.
[00:33:36] Sarah: And they do in rut, you know, they'll bash and stuff.
[00:33:39] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:33:39] Sarah: But that's it. And they know exactly where their horns are.
[00:33:43] Rachel: They do. At least ours don't. They do not use their horns aggressively. They're very careful with their horns, especially around us.
And we don't cut them at all. There's no reason to. Unless for some reason a horn is growing close to their eye or growing into their head, Most likely from getting knocked when they were young. That's the only time when we cut them is for that health purposes
[00:34:08] Sarah: and just enough to trim, because otherwise you'll cut to the quick like a claw.
[00:34:13] Rachel: Yeah. And because the active blood supply, you know, you gotta be very careful there.
And so that's a difference between horns and antlers. There is a difference. Horns are permanent. They grow straight out of the animal's head. Whereas antlers are temporary antlers such as those grown by moose and deer and elk. Those get shed every, every winter or so.
So they, they grow all year and then they lose them.
So antlers are temporary, horns are permanent and then age range.
So again that also depends on how well they have been raised
[00:34:55] Sarah: and their genetics.
[00:34:56] Rachel: And their genetics. So we have had. So does always live longer than bucks simply because bucks live hard lives with all the bashing and whatnot. So bucks usually live to be around 10 years old and then. And
[00:35:12] Sarah: that's kind of like average.
[00:35:13] Rachel: That's an average. They have similar lifespan to a big dog, whereas does tend to live much longer.
And we've had does live to be 16 years old. So does can easily live into their teens essentially.
And they grow mohair their whole life. Now once they get that old, their mohair tends to not have the strength it used to, but it still. Still usable and makes great garden compost, which is what mom uses it for. So there's always a use
[00:35:47] Sarah: for their model. And depending on where you live and are raising your angora goats, what we do, cause we live in winter climates is we give them an old lady haircut in the fall. Yeah.
We call
[00:35:57] Rachel: it a cape cut or a diva cut.
And that is where we keep the hair all on their cape essentially. So from their shoulders all the way, pretty much their tail and halfway down their sides so that they kind of have a built in blanket going into winter. Because once they get old, they don't grow mohair as fast or as thick as they used to. And so then instead of just shearing them once a year, we don't want them getting all matted and stuff. So we clean up their legs and their belly and around their tail and their head and then they go into winter with this nice built in blanket. And then we do a complete shearing once it's warm in, in April. For the older ones.
[00:36:39] Sarah: Yeah. So I think that's a pretty well rounded deep dive into angora goats. What we do here, their micron count? Oh, there's multiple
[00:36:47] Rachel: other things.
[00:36:49] Sarah: There's a lot of other things
[00:36:50] Angela: could be multiple. So
[00:36:51] Rachel: like when, when people, when people ask, when we tell them, you know, we have goats, you know, they automatically think hobby farm. Because for some reason with goats, when you say goats, goats, it becomes all cutesy and cottage core. Whereas when you say sheep or cows or anything else, people think ranch. But as soon as you say goats, it's cute. Hobby farm, which I'm, I'm not sure the psychological trigger there. But then when we say we have, you know, over 75 goats, then people like, whoa, okay, so you're, you're legit. Which I'm not sure why quantity has to deal with that. But then they're like meat or milk. And I'm like, neither mohair. And so then they're very confused because goats are not fiber animals. For some reason that doesn't clock in people's heads. So when you say we have goats and we raise them for fiber, automatically labeled as sheep in their minds and they'll start calling them sheep and they'll start calling mohair wool. Not sure how that happens. It should be studied on the psychological level because it is ridiculous. But that is a very common thing we run into. Angora goats are not raised for meat because everything gets poured into their mohair. Same with why they are not raised for milk. So when an Angora goat produces milk for their baby, it is just enough for that baby. They do not produce any excess for any other purposes other than for nurturing their young. And with meat. They are more of a.
Our goats are built very powerfully and strong because we believe that mohair should grow on a big strong body. But there really isn't that much meat on them because again, everything gets poured into growing their mohair. So if you were to compare an Angora goat to a big meat goat, there's a clear difference on why one is raised for meat and why one is raised for just their hair. So Angora goats are definitely a single purpose animal,
[00:38:49] Angela: but there are people who think they can turn them into dual purpose
[00:38:53] Rachel: and they shouldn't.
[00:38:54] Angela: And then you don't get the best of anything,
[00:38:56] Rachel: any dual purpose. As, as it would be said in my bio 400 level university class, anytime you start doing crossovers, you might as well start saying trade offs because you're trading something. So now with this whole homesteader movement, people are trying to be efficient and create a bunch of cross breeds so that they can have a multi use thing instead of a bunch of other things. So instead of having a dairy goat that produces just milk, a meat goat that's just for meat, an angora goat just for their hair, they want to combine all three into one or two into one. And you're simply not getting the best of both worlds with that, you're getting trade offs. So as soon as you start crossing angoras, that premium mohr quality out the window, you're start having, you're starting to have to deal with guard hair again. You're going to have to have that sent off to be dehaired. You're not going to have the stick staple length. So Instead of a 6 inch long lock, you're going to be dealing with 3 inch long fuzz. So that's ridiculous. And whenever you cross them with, whether it's meat or milk, you're not going to have the milk quantity or quality of a purebred dairy goat and the meat, same thing. So there's really no such thing as a dual purpose animal. Because look at all the dual purpose sheep. How much of that wool is actually used?
It's all tossed. The sheep is just for me. So people like throwing around these dual purpose, multipurpose. All you're talking about is trade offs. Okay. If you really care about wanting the quality and quantity of something, go with the purebred because that is what is bred for.
[00:40:34] Angela: And it's been bred that way for hundreds, if not thousands of years to become superior at what it does.
[00:40:41] Rachel: Yeah. So when I. That drives me up a wall. If you couldn't tell. So Angora goats are strictly for mohair and that's all they should be used for. Anything else is an insult to the breed.
[00:40:54] Sarah: And did we talk about lanolin and natural grease in this episode?
[00:40:58] Rachel: Well, see, kind of before we go into that for Bunny, if any of you are aware of Bunny. Bunny is an accidental crossbreed that happened when we got Coco. We didn't realize she had accidentally been bred by a sauna dairy buck. So now we have one of those cross breeds. We have a Saunen dairy goat and Gorgoat cross. And Bunny is the perfect example of why you shouldn't do that.
Because she just has this fuzz that's growing. It's not mohair. If anything, it's similar to cashmere, which is another ridiculous thing that has to be brushed out and then sent off to be dehaired. And you get ounces instead of pounds of it back.
Ridiculous. And then we're not going to breed her because then first off, we'd have another life, another crossbred life. What are we going to do with that? Use it like
[00:41:48] Angela: it's not responsible.
[00:41:49] Rachel: It's not responsible. It's not a responsible thing to do. And just to do it to get milk. I'd rather support a local dairy farmer and get milk from them rather than getting a crossbreed to produce some sort of mixed milk thing to like. It doesn't make any sense.
[00:42:07] Sarah: Not that any of our animals have to have a purpose, but there's no reason to create more life just to justify another life.
[00:42:14] Rachel: There's no reason to justify Bunny's existence. Bunny's here, bunnies now.
Bunny forever.
[00:42:20] Sarah: Bunny is joy. Bunny is life.
[00:42:23] Rachel: So anyway, you're going into the grease and lanolin.
[00:42:25] Sarah: Yeah, I believe I talked about this in a previous episode, but I'll touch on it here as well because I think it's quite interesting. So mohair produces a natural grease just like our hair, because mohair is hair and so that protects the ringlets. Now, lanolin is what sheep produce and that coats their whole body and it protects them from the elements.
[00:42:47] Angela: Yeah. Cause most of them are raised like think of England and it rains all the time. And
[00:42:51] Rachel: they're outside,
[00:42:52] Angela: they're out in the rain. But it doesn't destroy their wool because it has lanolin.
[00:42:57] Sarah: Yes. So that's the difference between lanolin and natural grease. And wool has a lot of microscopic barbs in comparison to mohair because mohair is so silky, so it has much fewer barbs. So it's not gonna felt as easily as wool. However, when you combine wool and mohair, you get the best of both worlds. It's
[00:43:14] Rachel: chocolate and peanut butter.
[00:43:15] Sarah: Chocolate and peanut butter, they work really well together. They work well separately. Cookies
[00:43:20] Rachel: and cream,
[00:43:20] Sarah: they work wonderful together. It just depends on what you want to do with your fibers.
So that's that. Is there anything else you guys wanted to talk touch on?
[00:43:28] Rachel: I'm sure I'll think of stuff later, but
[00:43:30] Angela: more episodes we can see.
[00:43:31] Rachel: I think that's pretty good with the angora.
[00:43:34] Sarah: Oh, definitely. There will be more coming. Whatever else you all want to hear us discuss or deep dive on, just let us know.
We hope you enjoyed this deep dive into the world of angora goats. They are wonderful, amazing fairy tale creatures and we're so glad we get to share them with you. So have a wonderful day and I hope the next time you see a sheep or an angora goat, you'll know more about the difference there.
